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do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-19-2010 08:27 PM |
since they play so tight whats the purpose for them playing? its not fun I dont think.. and I dont think they win much playing so tight. they're probably break even or only slightly winning right? maybe even losing
I was a nit once and I remember I was slightly winning. maybe I was a light nit
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 bobby7
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| Joined: 05 Apr 2004 |
| Total Posts: 5426 |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-19-2010 09:52 PM |
yes, nits can make money reliably for a while. once you get to the mid-high stakes though you cant really be a nit anymore, you just need to become a TAG. the difference is a nit waits for hands, a tag waits for situations.
they can make money because 1. a lot of people dont pay attention to stats. 2. some people will always be suspicious of a tight player thinking that since they are playing tight they might be making a move based on their image. 3. a lot of people will have hands like QQ on boards of J32 and think its an easy stack off against anyone so the nit can just wait for sets and double up.
is being a nit the most profitable strategy? no. it will never be the correct long term strategy for any stakes or any game. it could be correct in any given session, but if you are unable to open your game up then you might beat micro stakes but you will never move up very far in the limits. |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-20-2010 04:30 AM |
| At the micro stakes nits are usually the biggest winners. Only because they take advantage of all the idiots at the table. I see 1 percent pfr guys raise utg and get called by half the table all the time then they get paid off by middle pair on a ace high board. I always think wtf was the caller thinking? The nit is only ever raising QQ+ and AK utg yet some their is always some donk that will call every street with a pair of tens |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-23-2010 02:29 AM |
| For what it's worth blackrain79 the pretty much greatest 2nl player ever says an optimum range for that level is around 15/10 |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-23-2010 10:16 AM |
For what it's worth blackrain79 the pretty much greatest 2nl player ever says an optimum range for that level is around 15/10
There's absolutely no such thing as an optimal range for any game. |
My poker is better than your poker. |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-23-2010 11:10 PM |
| Actually poker theorist say poker absolutely does have an optimum range. It just lives in math land and has yet to be found. Optimum play is defined as play that can never be beaten over the long term at best you can be zero ev against it. Also it is usually never the best strat in any given game. You have to play sub optimally to exploit the other guys mistakes. Actually theirs a book about the whole subject |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-23-2010 11:39 PM |
There's absolutely no such thing as an optimal range for any game.
This is about the smartest thing that's been said in the whole thread.
"Nit" is a totally relative term and different strategies will profit in different situations.
Say you are a player who only plays AA and KK, but only fast plays it, and never gets action from anything...
If you're at a game where the action around the table is always raise, re-raise, 4bet, 5-bet... well... you will profit because you will pick up tons of dead money.
But some people define nits as people who play tight preflop... but there are many ways to play a range like that postflop that will make someone not a nit...
There are players who are crazy loose but fold a ton to pressure... they're very nitty imo but people would see them as loose...
nit is a relative term... and an "optimal range" is a laughable concept, since it has to adjust to others ranges to become optimal... and no two players ranges are going to be the same in any situation |
Teach Me Does Good Pokers Yes? |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-24-2010 02:49 PM |
| My question is can lags make money at 2nl? A lot of a lags money comes from bluffs and it's down right hard to bluff in the slums |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-24-2010 03:08 PM |
A lot of a lags money comes from bluffs
this is also wrong imo |
Teach Me Does Good Pokers Yes? |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-30-2010 03:12 PM |
Actually poker theorist say poker absolutely does have an optimum range. It just lives in math land and has yet to be found. Optimum play is defined as play that can never be beaten over the long term at best you can be zero ev against it. Also it is usually never the best strat in any given game. You have to play sub optimally to exploit the other guys mistakes. Actually theirs a book about the whole subject
[ ] understands the significance of unexploitable vs optimum
[x] takes opinion of "world's greatest 2nl player" seriously
/troll
Don't worry about what your preflop stats are. Look at each hand individually and decide which option is best. The only reason you should look at your vpip/pfr is to spot huge leaks. As long as your vp/pfr ratio is good you should probably not worry too much about those numbers.
Nits are some of the easiest players to exploit and are often some of the worst tilters. I love playing against nits at any level. Yes I made money playing lag at 2nl... really fast... then I moved up. Nits stay there. |
Ivey doesnt win money, money wins Ivey. |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-31-2010 04:56 AM |
| When talking about poker the terms optimum and unexplainable are 100 percent interchangeable. At least thats the way it was explained in theory and practice. It describes an optimum range as a range that can never be beaten. The villain can only tie by also playing an optimum range. If he deviates from that range in anyway he will bleed money to us. It also makes it clear that playing a "optimum" range rarely makes the most money. |
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bobby7
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| Joined: 05 Apr 2004 |
| Total Posts: 5426 |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 12-31-2010 09:41 AM |
lags make a lot of their money from just being involved in more pots than most people.
i tend to play more on the lag side, im not trying to induce bluffs or get people to call me lighter than normal or anything like that, if it happens then sweet but it is not the main objective. the reason i play that way is simply so i have more decisions. i do not believe that a TAG style is the most profitable way to play the micros, many of your opponents at micros are not very good at the more borderline spots and would rather just wait for clear cut decisions, thats where a good lag exploits them.
i do not get called lighter than a tag does, you have to be playing like a complete maniac(and therefore, not optimal) in order for most of your opponents to even take notice of what your doing, just being in more pots = more decisons = more profits.
the reason nits make money at the micros is because many of your opponents suck, but being involved in a lot of pots is usually gonna be the best way to beat micros. take advantage of them until you move up, eventually you will have to pull back a bit and tighten up but thats not gonna be till like $50+ |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 01-20-2011 03:10 AM |
GTO will break even at worst but must sacrifice of obvious +EV spots, while an exploitative style is always looking for the most +EV decision. You might be wrong in your assumptions and lose lots of money -- but if you have good assumptions/info this is clearly the OPTIMUM style at any level.
Optimum means does not mean unexploitable in poker -- though they are synonyms is other uses.
btw, while Sklansky definitely came up with some brilliant poker concepts, his ideas are antiquated and sometimes just plain wrong. |
Ivey doesnt win money, money wins Ivey. |
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jd420
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| Joined: 30 Dec 2010 |
| Total Posts: 15 |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 01-26-2011 05:19 PM |
| sorry it isn't whether it is fun or not...winning is fun...and whether you can nit it up and win is the question... |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 01-31-2011 06:19 PM |
Nits make money if....
-they have good game selection
-they have excellent self control
-they do not tilt
-they realize their style of play is going to lead to a low WR, thus many lol-tastic swongs
-etc
Good luck w/that. |
Ivey doesnt win money, money wins Ivey. |
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Re: do nits make any money?
Posted: 02-01-2011 02:09 PM |
Actually poker theorist say poker absolutely does have an optimum range.
The reason why this statement is incorrect is because the theoretical “optimal range” would change from table to table, session to session. What makes something optimal is entirely dependent on who you play against and how they adjust throughout the course of a session. The only way saying XX VP$P and XX PRF etc is optimal is if you played with the exact same people, you all sat in the exact same seats, and nobody made any adjustments.
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My poker is better than your poker. |
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