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Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 03-31-2008 03:48 PM |
I thought this was interesting. Carbon Poker now has the “deal it twice“ option at certain tables in two player all in situations. This in an update email I just got:
...in certain ring games, the option to deal both turn and river cards twice will be available in two player, all-in circumstances. This is a brand new feature for the online poker industry, being played first at CarbonPoker!
You see this pretty frequently on High Stakes Poker. So what is the strategy behind running it twice? If you felt like you had a decent lead, would you run it twice to give you some insurance against a bad beat? Or only opt for running it twice if you feel like you might not have the best hand, but a decent draw to it?
Running it twice thoughts?
Shameless plug - we do have Carbon Poker rakeback. They used to be “poker.com“. If you already have a Poker.Com or Carbon account, you can get the same rakeback through PokerNordica, as they're on the same network. So if you decide to check out this 'deal it twice' option, make a point to get a rakeback account.
Carbon Poker Rakeback
Poker Nordica Rakeback |
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 trs912
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| Joined: 03 Oct 2007 |
| Total Posts: 1741 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 03-31-2008 03:54 PM |
| Could you elaborate some? I'm unclear on the concept. |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 03-31-2008 04:13 PM |
bascally
PLAYER 1
PLAYER 2
PLAYER 1, Ah As
PLAYER 2, 5d 6d
FLOP 4d 7d Jh
PLAYER 1, all in 1000
PLAYER 2, all in 1000
they can chose to have the pot split into 2 500 dollar pots and run the turn and river cards twice as two seperate pots
make it any clearer
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 03-31-2008 04:33 PM |
Kind of a cool gimmick imo... I probably wouldn't use it, but if a fish is more willing to get all his money in because he thinks he'll get to run it twice that's a good thing (even if he's wrong).
I probably wont be going to any of the sites on Merge any time soon though because there's just not enough traffic. |
Ivey doesnt win money, money wins Ivey. |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 03-31-2008 05:09 PM |
Do you make this decision before seeing your opponent's cards?
In HSP you get to see the cards first. |
"I'm not a 'roll' model."
Check out my blog, I'm updating again. http://trulyrand0m.livejournal.com |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 03-31-2008 05:52 PM |
The maths of running it twice are simple, the EV stays exactly the same, but the varience it reduced - when you get it all in on the flop with AA v a flush draw, you now have 3 options for the outcome rather than 2, win, chop or lose!
Might be handy if you are playing a big pot at a level out of your bankroll, but I think, at least at low stakes all it will do is slow down the game while the guys decide what to do 
Mat |
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bobby7
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| Joined: 05 Apr 2004 |
| Total Posts: 5426 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 06:08 AM |
TR, they sometimes dont see the cards first on HSP, sometimes they do but sometimes not.
there is no strategy too it, its just a variance reducer. if variance bothers you then you should use this everytime, if you dont care about variance you should disable it.
personally id use it 100% of the time whether im ahead or behind, is carbon a usa room? might signup. |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 06:50 AM |
| Yes it is a US friendly room. |
Ivey doesnt win money, money wins Ivey. |
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trs912
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| Joined: 03 Oct 2007 |
| Total Posts: 1741 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 07:13 AM |
| So, does the game just stop while the two players make the decision? Is there a button for this? |
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bobby7
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| Joined: 05 Apr 2004 |
| Total Posts: 5426 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 07:19 AM |
| im surprised no room thought to add this sooner. running it twice = more chop pots = peoples money lasts longer = more rake. |
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JCHSKC
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| Joined: 20 Nov 2007 |
| Total Posts: 883 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 12:10 PM |
I'm surprised too, and think it's a good idea.
If I had this option I might be prepared to shove more draws. |
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trs912
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| Joined: 03 Oct 2007 |
| Total Posts: 1741 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 12:33 PM |
| Ok, another question. Do you both have to make the shove decision - then the run it twice decision? What if you wouldn't shove unless you could run it twice? Then what if you said this but the other guy wouldn't go for it? Wouldn't that tip off your hand? Would you not only be gambling on the shove, but whether or not the villain wants to run it twice? Why are bananas yellow? I'm so confused. |
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bobby7
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| Joined: 05 Apr 2004 |
| Total Posts: 5426 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 01:03 PM |
running it twice can only be talked about AFTER both players are already allin, if you have watched high stakes poker you will see they only ever talk about it after the action because saying anything before that would be giving away the strength of your hand.
i would imagine its setup to where once both players are allin another button appears and your given x seconds to click it(hopefully not long, should be like 10-15 seconds maximum), if both players chose yes then its run twice. |
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JCHSKC
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| Joined: 20 Nov 2007 |
| Total Posts: 883 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-01-2008 05:45 PM |
As bobby says trs. Shove, other player calls, then comes the run-it-twice option.
I'm reluctant to shove draws because people don't tend to lay hands down and you're usually at least a slight dog to hit (when they call). |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-03-2008 08:22 AM |
| yippie something else to slow the game down. Donks will be runing it twice all the time just because the saw the people on tv do it. I mean i already have to put up with idiots waiting untill the last second of every street of every hand. |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-03-2008 12:49 PM |
If I've read everything correctly:
-There will be a box you can check to completely disable it. For the option to appear, both players must have it enabled.
-The option will only be available on some tables, so players who are afraid that it will slow the game down too much will be able to avoid those tables completely.
-The run it twice option will appear after 2 players are all in on the flop, no other players are active in the hand, and before they see the opponent's card.
I don't think it will happen often enough to slow the game down. Unless you're at a table of all in happy idiots. Granted, I don't play NLHE cash games much, but I don't remember that many times that there were only two players active, both shoved all in, and on the flop. If just one of the players has it disabled, the option won't even be given, so that'll cut down even more. I think it'll be a somewhat rare event in the typical session.
Someone good at math: With 9 outs and 2 cards to come, you're roughly 2:1 dog. With one card to come, 4:1 dog. What are the exact odds with 4 cards to come??? 3?? |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-03-2008 01:10 PM |
the odds don't change when you run it twice Coach, the pot is simply split in two, and then each pot plays out separately, so you'd still be 2:1 dog with a flush draw on the flop for each pot.
Although if you catch on the first pot you only have 8 outs on the second run 
So again with a flush draw you are 2:1 dog, so have a roughly 2/3 chance of chopping the pot, and a roughly 1/9 chance of scooping both pots
Mat |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 04-04-2008 01:34 PM |
Ok, my brain is doing flips. It seemed to me the odds have to change if you're using the same deck of 52 cards and you don't reshuffle with the first dead turn/river. If you didn't hit on the first turn/river, then your odds for hitting the flush are 34:9 and 33:9 for the next turn/river, if you don't reshuffle the dead cards. Turns out I should just stick to history topics, not math.
I dug around a bit for geeky math, and found a couple of threads:
Here's one where Andy Beal asked posters on FCP forum to prove that the odds don't change. (which they did, if you care to follow the mind numbing formulas!): http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/lofiversion/index.php/t54819.html
Here's a very simplified explanation that may or may not be correct? Pasting it:
AA heads up against an underpair is roughly 80% to 20%.
Expected Value (EV) calculated for this situation (lets assume 88) when you run the cards once:
AA: (+$1000) * (0.8) + (-$1000) * (0.2) = +$600
88: (-$1000) * (0.8) + (+$1000) * (0.2) = -$600
Expected Value (EV) calculated for this situation (lets assume 88) when you run the cards twice:
AA: (+$1000) * (0.64) + (-$1000) * (0.04) + ($0) * (0.32) = $600
88: (-$1000) * (0.64) + (+$1000) * (0.04) + ($0) * (0.32) = -$600
The expected values are the same but when you run it twice, AA will lose his $1000 only 4% of the time and win $1000 64% of the time instead of losing his stack 20% of the time and winning 80% of the time.
It's merely just a way for a favorite to lessen his chances of losing his stack.
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celavey
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| Joined: 02 Jan 2012 |
| Total Posts: 13 |
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 01-09-2012 10:58 PM |
They say that Carbon Poker has this cool function, but haven't been able to work it right. I am new to them and it's already eating me. Please help.
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Re: Run it Twice (option at Carbon Poker)
Posted: 02-26-2012 08:18 PM |
Good thing to read about this one. I really hope that all would be well in this one. Thanks for this forum! I got a lot of things in stored here.
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